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JOHN MUELLER: Welcome, everyone,
to today's Google WebmasterCentral Office Hours Hangout.My name is John Mueller.I'm a webmaster trans-analyst
at Google in Switzerland,and part of what I do is talk
with webmasters and publisherslike we have here in
the audience already.Before we get started with
the normal Q&A, if one of youhas any questions that
you've been burning to ask,feel free to jump on in.
BARUCH LABUNSKI: Basically
adding site maps,or refreshing them,
in other words,would that basically
boost the cross states?I mean, if the cross
stats are very, very low,let's say in the hundreds,
and all of a sudden,I made some changes to a certain
amount of pages on a site,would that boost my-- because
there's a lot of talk out therestill about this whole method.So if I refresh it, would
that boost my stats?
JOHN MUELLER: Possibly, yeah.So I guess there are
two aspects there.On the one hand, we try to find
the maximum crawl speed thatwould make sense for a server,
and we'll try to stick to that.So that's kind of the upper
bound we have for a website.That could be the
higher limit that youset in Webmaster Tools.It could be a limit that
we determine automaticallyif you don't have anything
set in Webmaster Tools.So that's kind of the high
limit that we have there.And we usually don't crawl at
that high limit all the time.So if we're crawling
at 100 pages a dayand we have our limit
set to 10,000 pages a dayfor your site, or for your
server, then theoretically,there is this room
for a whole bunchof pages that could be
crawled during that day.And if you submit
a site map, and youtell us all these pages
just recently changed,then we'll go off
and crawl them.So potentially, if
there's kind of this roomthat we have available
for crawling more pages,then we'll try to take that
into account when we actuallydo crawl these pages.
BARUCH LABUNSKI: And so
also moving to an SAWS,or moving to a different
cloud as opposedto having my own server and
moving into a better server,that will also help, right?
JOHN MUELLER: Sure.I mean, we kind of
set the server limitbased on what we think
your server can takeand that's kind of based on
what we've seen from crawling.So if we crawl 1,000 pages a
day and your server does fine,if we crawl 2,000
pages a day and wesee a lot of server errors,
or we see the response time godown significantly,
they might say,well, there's probably a limit
between about 1,000 and 2,000that we shouldn't go past.And if you move to a server
that's significantly strongerwhere we can crawl a lot
more pages, than most likelywe'll be able to
crawl more pages.The thing to keep
in mind there isthat just crawling these pages
doesn't mean that they'll rank.So we might crawl 10,000 pages
from your site on one day,but that doesn't mean that
these 10,000 pages are goingto be indexed the
next day, it doesn'tmean that they're going to
rank higher than any pagesthat we crawled
maybe a year ago.So just because we
crawl them doesn't meanthey'll rank better, but
we do try to keep that way.And we say, OK, well,
if the webmaster saysthat all of these pages
changed yesterday,or recently then we
should go check them outso that when someone is
searching for that content,we actually have that content.It's not that
they'll rank higherfor anything on these
pages, but if someoneis searching specifically
for that contentand we don't have anywhere
else, then of coursewe're going to have to show
your pages because that'swhere this content is.
BARUCH LABUNSKI: I see.So I might see a little
jump there like on,let's say the 10th, being today.And then like two days later,
it's back to where it was.Like you were saying.
JOHN MUELLER: From
the crawl speed,I imagine we'll try to
smooth that out over time.So we'll try to
pick up these pagesas soon as we see
that they've change,but that usually
spreads out a bit.So if submit a site with a
million pages and you say,these all changed
yesterday, thenwe're not going to
be able to crawlon millions of those today.
BARUCH LABUNSKI: Of course.
JOHN MUELLER: We'll have
to kind of spread that out.
BARUCH LABUNSKI: Thank
you so much, John.
MALE SPEAKER: So, John,
I have a follow up there.And we had this bit of
a problem because wewere trying to figure out
what last modified date weshould put in the site map.So for example, if the CSS
changes, or the java scriptchanges on the
page, that effectssome of the supplementary
elements on the page,but not the main content.Google's crawler uses the "if
last modified since" header."And so we send the
response accordingly,but that depends on whether or
not JS and CSS have changed.But on the site
map it's differentbecause we can control,
we know exactly whenthe main content changed versus
when the CSS and JS changed.So long story
short, the questionis in a site map, the
last modified date,should we change it if
the JS and CSS change?
JOHN MUELLER: If you
want that indexed, sure.You can do that.But primarily, we want to
see when the main contentchanges and that can include
things like comments, thatcan include things like
additional news articles,or updates that you
have on those pages.So these are all kind of in
the bulk of the main content,but if you want to have layout
changes reflected in the index,then by all means,
do that as well.So if you do a complete
redesign of your website,the internal links change, and
all of those things change,then by all means, let
us know about that.We'll try to recognize
that automatically as welland pick up on
crawling that as well.
MALE SPEAKER: But redesigns
don't happen that frequently.Normally, you'd make
smaller changes to CSS.And the thing that I
was concerned aboutwas if the last modified
date in the site mapis different from the
last modified HTTP headerthat the PH sends--
JOHN MUELLER: That's fine.That's fine.I mean, we try to recognize
that the last modificationdate and the site map make
sense because what we'veseen a lot is that someone
will set up a dynamic scriptto create the site map file and
say, oh, the last modificationdate for all of the pages
across my website is right now.And that's almost
certainly wrong.And that's something that
we try to recognize and say,well, I think the webmaster's
trying to shoot themselvesin the foot here,
they don't reallywant to re-crawl the whole
website all the time.We have to figure
it out ourselves.But if you give us a reasonable
last modification date,we'll try to take
that into account.We have the Dutch football
fan club here today.What's up?
MALE SPEAKER: I'm curious.Gary from Google, who might
be sitting somewhere near you,or maybe not, I don't
know if he's back yet,announced, or
suggested that they'regoing to announce at Google
this week that something'schanging with the Ajax
recommendations for Google.Can you talk more about
that since it was talkedabout a little bit so far?
JOHN MUELLER: I
think, if he announcedthat we're going to
announce something,then maybe it's best to
wait for that announcement.I mean, the bigger picture is
we've gotten better and betterat rendering pages, so it's
generally less of an issuethat you need to do something
like the Ajax following workaround to actually
make this contentaccessible to Googlebot.So it's something if we can
render the page directly,then why should you
have to go through thisis kind of magic dance to
create this alternate versionof your website to kind of
serve specifically to Googlebot?So that's kind of
the bigger themeand that's the direction we've
been heading for a while now.So we're getting better and
out for pretty muchmost kinds of pages.So I think the next logical
step would be to say,well, you don't need this kind
of magic work around anymore,you can just focus on
us being able to renderthose pages directly.
MALE SPEAKER: He kind
of implied that it's notgood user experience
to design sitesthat are fully built in Ajax.
JOHN MUELLER: I don't know what
he said there specifically.It's hard to comment on that.
MALE SPEAKER: I was going to
follow up on Barry's questionand ask if you have a
search tool with filters,do they still recommend using
the explanation mark hashtagto illustrate the URL that
Google can go directly,or are you guys saying that
won't even be necessary?
JOHN MUELLER: I am not
sure specifically whatyou're referring to.
MALE SPEAKER: If you
have a search tooland one of the filters is,
I don't know, blue shoes.In the past, you guys
recommended that you would useI believe explanation mark, hash
to illustrate-- so for example,let's say example.com/expl
anation#blueshoes,so then if you went also to
the URL example.com/blueshoes,you would get the same thing as
if you clicked on that filter.
JOHN MUELLER: I
think you're probablymixing up the hash thing,
the Ajax crawling thingsthere a little bit.So with the Ajax
crawling set up,you have the hashtag,
MALE SPEAKER: Yes, sorry, I
got it the other way around.
JOHN MUELLER: And
the URL we would callis then question mark,
underscore, escape, fragment,equals, whatever you
have after the hashtag.And that's essentially
the Ajax crawling set up.And for search pages
specifically, Ithink that's independent
of any of this.Ajax crawling
specifically, that'ssomething where you can
use URL parameter settingsand those kind of things.
MALE SPEAKER: Perfect.Thank you.
JOHN MUELLER: So I guess we have
this first question covered.Let me just click down here.Do you considerate it bad to do
a 301 redirection of old domainto new website.Old domains have
thousands of pages indexedand there will be
not related pagesto point on the new website.Can I just 301 the whole
domain to the home pageof the new URL, or is that bad?If you're moving from
one domain to the other,I definitely would do a 301
on a pretty regular basis.If you're essentially just
setting up a new domainand it's unrelated
to your old domainthat I don't know how a 301
redirect to the home pagewould realistically
make sense there,so that's probably
something I'd avoid.If you're essentially
moving to a new websiteand you can map them one
to one, then maybe that'sa possibility.But for the most part, I'd
really try to figure out a waythat you can do a one to
one mapping of the old pagesto the new pages.They don't have to
be the same URLs,but if you have like a product
page for your blue shoeson your old website, and a
different URL for a productpage for blue shoes,
then maybe there'sa way that you can
set up some redirect,so that users to the old pages
can reach the right new ones.And on the one hand,
that helps users.On the other hand, it helps us
to forward all of the signalsthat we've collected
over the yearsand bring those to
your new pages as well.So as much as
possible, I'd reallytry to set up a one to one
redirect there and not redirecteverything to the homepage.I have an old site
not updated for years,which is the tutorial
directory and I have thousandsof pages indexed in google.I want to re-run that
side on a new scriptand delete all the old content.What should I do with all
the old indexed pages?Should I 410 them?It's hard to say exactly what
you're trying to do there.So if you have a lot
of content in a CMSand you want to move
to a different CMS,then I would try to, like
in the previous question,set up redirects from the
old versions to the new ones.That really helps us to
kind of keep that connectionand make sure that all the
signals that we have collectedfor the old pages, for the
content that you have there,is forwarded to the new content.On the other hand, if you want
to delete your whole website,and essentially
start over, and youdon't want to keep any
of the old content,then putting a 404, or
410 there for those URLsis perfectly fine.And that's
essentially up to you.410 will be a tiny bit faster,
but for practical purposes,the 404 is just as useful.
JOSH BACHYNSKI: Hey, John, can
I ask you a quick question?
JOHN MUELLER: Sure.
JOSH BACHYNSKI: So is there a
difference between Payday Loansand Penguin?Because you guys refer to them
both as the web spam algorithm.I was wondering if
there was a difference,and are you still
updating Payday Loans,have you fixed
Payday Loans, whatis the deal with Payday Loans?
JOHN MUELLER: I don't know.What do you guys do with
these Payday Loans websitesthat our web spam engineers have
to kind of focus specificallyon that niche.That sounds like something
is really going wrong there.I don't know what's
up with Payday Loans,so I don't have any
specific answer.It is different than
our other algorithms,like Penguin for example.But I don't know what the
specific issues are therethat the website is saying
this is such a complicatedand specific
problem that we haveto focus on this specifically.
So you don't evenknow if it's still
JOHN MUELLER: I don't know.I can't speak for them.I'd have to check it out and
see what's happening there.Is this something that you're
seeing with specific sites?
JOSH BACHYNSKI: Well, we
are seeing fluctuations.And Barry does his due
diligence and asks Googleif it was Panda or Penguin.And they say, nope, it
wasn't Panda or Penguin.And so some sites that
went down on a previous,admitted Payday Loans date,
either go up on this date,or go down on this date
of the unnamed update.And so we're just
trying to diagnosewhat's going on, and just trying
to fix websites, and get peopleback into the rankings.
JOHN MUELLER: As far as
I know, the Payday Loanspecific algorithms are
really specific to those typeof sites, though.So that's not something where
if you have a site about shoes,or an e-commerce website, you'd
have any problems with anythingPayday Loans specific.So that would be
JOSH BACHYNSKI: Well,
the issue there thenis that on the
admitted Payday Loansdate that Google had
confirmed-- Barry had askedand Google confirmed this
is a Payday Loans update,back in 2013, I think.Various sites that were
not in any Payday Loansniche-- I would say they're
probably in competitive niches,I would admit that,
but various sites,like limousine sites, car
rental sites for example.I've had numerous
clients come to meand they went down
on those dates.So either they were
hit by Payday loans,or maybe Penguin was
dropped in back there,or some other algorithm.Would you guys ever put
Payday Loans and Penguinat the same time, maybe?
JOHN MUELLER: It's
theoretically possible.We make a lot of the
updates over the years.On the one hand, if
it's back in 2013,it's really hard to say what
would be affecting the site nowthat happened by then.But in general, last year we
made over a thousand changesin web search.I think we said that somewhere.That's something where
on any given date,there might be larger
changes, somethingthat we might talk about even.And there might be a
lot of other changesthat are happening that are
just happening as they usuallyhappen.And there might be
things that the websiteteam is doing manually at
the same time, as well.So that's something where just
because something happenedon a date, I think
there's some help whereyou can look up and say, OK,
well these kinds of thingshappened on that date,
so it might be that.But I wouldn't assume
that just because ithappened on that date,
it has to be that.But I think you've seen a
lot of these cases as welland you kind of
understand that, too.
BARUCH LABUNSKI: Are we going
to see less fluctuationsthis year?For 2015 as opposed to last year
because last year there was--I just wanted to know.
JOHN MUELLER: I have no idea.I don't think the search quality
team is sitting there schemingand saying, well, we'll make
lots of fluctuations this yearand keep people on their toes.We're just trying to keep
the search results relevant.And sometimes that means
we roll out bigger changesthat we've worked on for maybe
a year, maybe even longer.And maybe those make
bigger fluctuations,but it's not the case that
the team is explicitlyfocusing on
fluctuations and saying,this is something we
should more of, or less of.
Well, I just wantedto finish up on that, John.So I understand completely
what you're sayingand of course, we don't
want complete transparency,but quite frankly,
pretty much the onlyway we could diagnose
whether or nota site has been hit by
Penguin, or Panda, or PaydayLoans, or any other
named algorithm,is by looking in the
traffic, and lookingat the ranking
reports, and seeingif they fail on
a confirmed date,or they fail when a bunch
of other people fail.Then we can presume possibly
it's Panda, which as far as weknow-- although Barry's about to
ask you a question about that.As far as we know, Panda
updates roughly monthlyon a regular, unannounced basis.And so if a bunch of people
are hit at the same time,we can predict that
maybe it was Panda.Quite frankly, if the
ability to diagnosethat is removed from us,
that really is a bad thingand we can't diagnose
what has hit a site.And it's not a
trivial change, John.It's thousands of dollars to
go clean up a backlink profileand it's a different set
of a thousand dollarsto go make a site
much higher quality.And for a lot businesses that's
not a trivial difference.I'm sure you can
appreciate that.Some businesses, yes, they
have lots of money and they canimprove their site and they
can clear the backlink profile,but many businesses don't.I don't want to be the broken
ethics wheel, but quitefrankly, shame on Google, if
that's what you guys are doing.We need announcements.You don't have to us
exactly how it works,but we do need announcements
for these things,so we can diagnose.At least if it's a
quality issue, fine,we can go fix that.Or if it's a link issue,
fine, we can go fix that.Does that make sense?
JOHN MUELLER: That
definitely make sense.I don't know how much of
that we can bring out,but it's definitely
something that we bring upwith the teams when
we discuss with them.And I think there are
various levels of informationthat we could give
in that regard.I don't know how far
they'd be willing to go,how far they'd be willing to
go with regards to changesthat they feel are pretty major
that maybe nobody noticed.
JOSH BACHYNSKI: So the
very last question on that.So again, is Penguin running
on a monthly schedulenow unannounced, or
is it still goingto be announced
when it refreshes?
JOHN MUELLER: At the
moment, I don't thinkit's on a monthly schedule.We're trying to get that more
regular, but at the moment,it's not something that's
rolling out automatically.
Thanks very much.
MALE SPEAKER: John,
I have been tryingto diagnose an issue like this.An example is, on February 22nd,
we noticed that the trafficthat Google sent on the mobile
site dropped by about 40,45 % and the desktop and tablet
versions were unaffected.I don't know how to diagnosis
this because every single thingthat I do in terms of the
[INAUDIBLE] headers are set,Google's tools say that it is
mobile friendly, I haven't madeany changes on the mobile site
and this is a significant issuebecause I usually get about
100,000 people a day on mobile,and now it's down significantly.So what can we do to diagnose
that issue because nothingseems to have changed?
JOHN MUELLER: That sounds
mostly like a technical issueon your side.I'd have to take a look
at the specific URLsto see what exactly
is happening there,but in general, we currently
have very minimal differencesin the mobile search results,
so the smartphone search resultsI assume you mean, and the
desktop search results.So we watch out for things
like if you broken redirects,like [INAUDIBLE] redirects,
if you have bad errorpages on mobile, if you
have Flash on mobile,those are things that
we watch out for.It sounds like you already
have a pretty good mobile site.
MALE SPEAKER: It's the same URL.We don't even redirect.So if you were to look at
it, how can we contact you?Can you publish
your email address?
JOHN MUELLER: I post
in the out forumand feel free to post
the URL of your threadin the event listing and
I'll take a look there.But generally speaking,
since we don't differentiatefrom the ranking side
of things that stronglyat the moment between the
desktop and the mobile pages,if you're seeing a significant
drop in the mobile pages,then it sounds like
something more on your sideis going wrong, then something
on our side has changed.But I'm happy to take a look.I think in the future as we roll
out the mobile ranking changeswhere we are going
to take a strongerapproach to recognizing
mobile friendly pagesand non mobile
friendly pages, youwill see a stronger
difference between the desktopand the mobile versions,
but at the moment,it should be fairly equivalent
besides the exceptionsthat I mentioned.
MALE SPEAKER: I've got
one question about Panda.Gary mentioned that
Panda is constantlyrunning in real time.I wasn't at the session,
I couldn't reallyask you more
questions about that,but as far as I know,
based on what I'm tracking,there might have been some
Panda rumblings in the past weekor so, maybe a little
bit of testing,but before that, I haven't seen
any significant Panda changessince October 24th.As far as you know,
could you tell usa little bit about this real
time, instant, constant remark?Is it constantly running?What's the story with that?It used to run every month, but
I think you guys stopped thatat some point.
JOHN MUELLER: I am not exactly
sure what he was referring towith the real time stuff
there, so I don't haveany specific comment on that.I'd have to check in
with him to see whathe was talking about there.But as far as I know,
we do kind of have Pandatied into our search results
more directly, so there'sthis kind of real
time reflection there.But as far as I know, we
haven't updated the data that'sreflected there for a while.So that's probably the date
that you're looking at thereand the real time is more
the technical aspect of howwe integrate the [INAUDIBLE].
MALE SPEAKER: Are you guessing
that that's the date, John?Or do you know for a fact
that it's October 24th?Because it's funny that
my customers site isin the same situation
and that's the exact datewhere they fell off a cliff.
JOHN MUELLER: I don't know
for sure the exact date.I know it was in October.
MALE SPEAKER: The last
time they refreshedthe data was in October.
JOHN MUELLER: Barry
watches these like a hawk,so he would know
which date it is.I'd have to dig through
a big pile of emailsto find something.
MALE SPEAKER: But
just to confirm, theyhaven't refreshed this
data since sometimein October, as far as you know.
JOHN MUELLER: As far as I
know, it's not refreshed yet.
MALE SPEAKER: Hey, John, since
we are on the Panda issue,in the past you have
said that comments youconsider as part of the page
and you guys consider them.And let's use Barry's
website as an example, whichhas usually thinner articles,
but a lot of commentsand conversation happening.Can it be the case
where if thereis a lot of comments-- not
thin content, just maybe500 word articles.Sorry, Barry.Can it be the case where if
a site has a lot of comments,then potentially Panda
might get confused and thinkthat a lot of different
articles are looking alikebecause maybe the comments are
not differentiating themselves.People are not using the
keyword, the article topicas much as it's used in
the body of the article,and then you are
inadvertently penalizing sitesthat you should be
rewarding because they'rehaving a lot of
community conversationand engage community
versus a different websitemight have a slightly longer
article and no one bothersto comment on it.
JOHN MUELLER: I don't
think that's the case.We do look at the whole page and
the whole website in general.We look at the
quality of a site,so that does include
things like the comments.But I don't think it's
the case that if youhave a lot of people
who comment in the same,or similar way that would
significantly pull downthe quality of your pages.I imagine if you have the
issue that a lot of peopleare commenting exactly
the same way across allof your articles, then that's
probably a general lowerquality sign anyway,
but somethingthat you'd want to
look at as a webmasterand think about why are all
these people saying exactlythe same thing on
all of these pages?Are these real people,
or are these botstrying to drop links, or
what's really happened there?Because usually if people
are commenting on something,they have something
unique to sayand they're not just on to say,
well, I liked your article.Thank you for posting it,
please link to my website.They're going to say
MALE SPEAKER: No, absolutely.My concern is that the
conversation that happensmay not to be strong
enough for a botto recognize the differences.I think for a human,
it's definitely.But maybe the conversation
is happening and if mostof the content on a page
comes from comments,so let's say 70 % comes from
comments versus the restof the article because
you have again,a very active conversation,
that maybe a bot cannot say, oh,what is this page about.I can see the title of the page,
but I cannot tell what thispage is really about
versus the next page,versus the next page.And you might be having
a false positive.
JOHN MUELLER: I think if we
look at the whole page overalland we really have
trouble recognizingwhat this page is about,
then maybe these commentsare kind of off topic.But even off topic comments can
provide a value for some sites,so it's not the
case that I'd sayif you have shorter articles
and a lot of comments,that's a bad thing.I really look at these overall
and say, well, overall,this page provides
a lot of value.Some of it is on top
here and some of itis on the bottom here with a
lot of user generated content.And overall, this is
something that provides valuethat we'd like to
show in a search,so that's something that
we try to reflect there.And it's not the
case that we'd say,well, there are 500
comments on this pageand the actual article
is only five lines,therefore this page
is lower quality.There's actually
a lot of contentthere if there's
so many comments,so that's not
something where I takethe number of comments to
lines of actual body articleinto account.We look at the
overall page and tryto recognize what that's
about, not just focusingon one or the other elements.
MALE SPEAKER: Thank you.
JOHN MUELLER: All right.Let's run through some of the
questions that were submitted.Google mobile ranking.Are we going to see
something like a page layoutalgorithm for mobile due
to small screen sizes?One quarter to one third
is covered with ads,is that a problem?I don't know.That's kind of forward looking.I would love to
be in a situationwhere we can say all websites
work great on smartphonesand now we can
focus on making surethat they look even
better on smartphonesand don't just show
ads on smartphones.I think maybe at some
point in the future,but not anytime soon.If an article is copy and
pasted on multiple geodomains,if we implement the
hreflang mark up,do the canonical
things that needto be pointing at the country
[INAUDIBLE] that publish itfirst?You could do that,
if you wanted to.You don't necessarily
need to do that.If you're using the
hreflang mark up,then I would do the canonical
to each of the hreflangimplementations of that.If you're not using
the hreflang mark up,you just want to publish
this on multiple pages,but actually prefer to
have one version index,then definitely use the
canonical and just pointto that version.You don't need to do the
hreflang in addition because wekind of dropped the
hreflang information, if youhave a canonical set up,
to a specific version.I'm trying to recover
my site from Panda,but did not see any Panda
refresh updates since October.It's very frustrating.Can you give some clue
about the next update?We talked about this briefly.I don't have any update on when
the next updates will happen,but we've been
talking to the teamshere as well to see what we
can say, or encourage thingsto move along a
little bit faster.
That would be great.
JOHN MUELLER: I have over
100,000 pages added by users.90% of the pages
have thin contentand a lot of duplicate content.I'm thinking of adding no
index, no follow to those pages.I'm scared.Of course, 50% of my search
engine traffic goes there.What should I do?This is something
that's really hardto say on a very generic level.So if you have a lot of
user generated content,and you know that it's
lower quality content,and you don't want to
be associated with that,then that's something you might
want to take action on and seewhat you can do to either
improve that content, whichmight be an option, or to
remove the content that'slower quality for the mean time
and improve on it step by step.Or think about what
you can fold together.All of those things.So essentially,
that's something whereit depends on your website,
on what you want to do,how far you want to
go, but if you'reable to recognize that
a lot of your contentis lower quality
content, then I thinkthat's an important first step.And from there, there
are a few optionsopen that you can
use to treat that.A few months back,
[INAUDIBLE] website, his linksstarted to show some
unusual set of links.More than 3,000 at once.I got to know that someone
has used a spam linkbot towards my website.I dissolved most of the
domains, or disavowed probablymost of your domain, but
my rankings were dropping.In general, if you use
a disavow tool for that,that's the perfect
way to handle that.You can disavow it on
a domain level, whichmeans you don't have to
focus on the individual URLs,you just compile the domains
and submit it like that.If your ranking is
still dropping there,then chances are that's
completely unrelated to thatbecause on the one
hand, we do tryto recognize this kind of spammy
link behavior automaticallyand we essentially
try to ignore it.Using the disavow tool, we
make sure that we can drop it.But this isn't something that
generally would be negativelyeffecting your website.
BARUCH LABUNSKI: On
the mobile level, John,just a quick question.On the mobile
level you were justdiscussing, now the
Google mobile usabilityupdates every two, three weeks.Now that it's a
ranking factor, can wemark it as fixed soon,
like the errors and stuff?Is it possible that the
feature will change?Marking it as fixed as opposed
to waiting two, three--
JOHN MUELLER: I think
we have somethingaround mark this
fixed plan, but Idon't think it's for the
mobile usability feature.But in general,
the mark this fixedin crawl errors for example,
is essentially just for the UIto make it easier for you.It doesn't change
anything on our side,so it doesn't result in
us re-crawling those URLs,or re-indexing them.It's essentially you just
saying, I looked at these,I don't want to look
at them anymore,show me the next batch.
MIHAI APERGHIS: By the
way, related to that,I was in the hangout last week
regarding mobile websites.And I found out that
the ranking packet willbe applied in a binary way,
so if the website passesthe mobile friendly test,
then it will get the boost,or whatever it gets.If it doesn't, it doesn't.So it's not about just a
few issues being fixed,the whole test needs to show
the green light in orderto get the full benefits.So not parts of it, or portion.
The problem hereis that if there's 200 pages
that are not mobile friendly,I don't want to go through
the same ones over.I'll just mark it as fixed and
then and I would get wherever.Like, 30 left, 20
left, whatever,as opposed to having the
Excel on this screen.
JOHN MUELLER: That's
good feedback.I'll see what we can do there.I don't know if we can
implement somethinglike that really
quickly, but I thinkthat seems like something
that might make sense there.And in general, what will happen
is we'll re-crawl those pagesand we'll drop them
out automatically,but I can see how you might
want to let us know about thata little bit earlier, so
that we can re-crawl thema little bit
earlier, so that youdon't have to see them in the
chart and aggregations there.
MIHAI APERGHIS: But we can
still use that to renderand then submit an indexed site?
JOHN MUELLER: Yes,
you can do that,but that mostly works if
you have a handful of pagesand if you're changing
a lot of pages.Then it might make more sense
to just say select all of thesein this chart and mark
them all as fixed.
JOSH BACHYNSKI: Hey, John, can
I ask you a clarifying question?
JOHN MUELLER: OK.
JOSH BACHYNSKI: So again,
there will be a debate lateron Barry's site filled with
internet trolls and vitriol,so I just wanted to make
sure we get this clear.Some people are taking your
last comment about Pandathat the code
hasn't been updatedsince October 24th, when
Panda 4.1 was released,as to say that Panda itself is
not run monthly since October.Can you confirm if that is the
case, or are you just not sure?
MALE SPEAKER: Wait, before
you confirm, specifically,the code by not have
been updated, the data,in terms of the signals
you're pulling from websites,also have not been
updated since October.So you might be
re-running it monthly,but it's with the same old data.That's how I understood it.
BARUCH LABUNSKI: Well,
why would they do that?
MALE SPEAKER: I don't know.They like to run things.
JOSH BACHYNSKI: That's the
silliest thing I've ever heard.I
JOHN MUELLER: I don't know where
you get this level of detailfrom us.As far as I know, we
haven't got any of that yet.We've updated the way that
we're pulling in this data,but it might be that's
something that you don't reallysee directly.
JOSH BACHYNSKI: So when you
say data, you mean code, right?You haven't updated
the code since October,but you're still refreshing
it on a regular basis?It's still running.Panda is still running.
MALE SPEAKER: What
don't you understand?Data is note code.Data is data.
Data can be code.
MALE SPEAKER: Can I ask the
question in a different way?My customer's site was
hit on October 24thand fell off a cliff.We believe it was Panda and
we've turned that websiteupside down.We like took a machete
to it, wiped outanything that could be perceived
as low quality content,and added a ton of new content,
and have not seen any recovery.Would that be the
expected resultbased on what Google's
done with Panda,or is it possible
that we're stillwaiting for, let's say, a
data update for that siteto fully recover?
JOHN MUELLER: In general,
if you make bigger changeson your website, you'll see
this gradual change over timeanyway, but you'll probably
see the bigger jump once we'veactually updated that data.But it really
depends on what allis happening with
your website and theremight be some issues there that
are totally unrelated to whatour quality algorithms
are picking up there.But if this is, in
a theoretical case,only due to our quality
algorithm thinkingthat this site over all is
lower quality and not as goodas it used to be, or
compared to other sites,maybe not as good
as it could be,then that's something
that will be changed whenthis data is actually updated.
JOSH BACHYNSKI: So
John, I'm sorry.So you're saying Panda has
not run since October 24th,to your knowledge?
JOHN MUELLER: As far as I know.I mean, I don't know
the specific date.I'd have to look it up.As far as I know,
it's been a while.
JOSH BACHYNSKI: Fair enough.So, John Mueller
is not sure, Barry.
JOHN MUELLER: I don't
really have timeto dig through my emails
during these live Hangouts.
MALE SPEAKER: He said
it has been a while.What's so confusing?The data has not been updated.Sites that have been hit
by Panda, back sometimein October, November, if
you want to go that far,will not see a
recovery specificallyaround Panda since then.It's that simple.
JOHN MUELLER: I
mean, when you'redoing significant
changes on your website,you'll see these gradual updates
happening over time anyway.As users kind of
love your website,as they share it more, as
go back by themselves more,you'll see this kind of
gradual growth anyway.So that's something you
should be seeing in any case,regardless of anything happening
around things like Panda.In general, the
bigger jump, you'llprobably see when that
actually is updatedand when our algorithms
are able to confirmsthat yes, this old
evaluation of your websitemight not be relevant.
MALE SPEAKER: I
JOSH BACHYNSKI: So the Panda
code is no longer in effectand Panda is not
MALE SPEAKER: No.
JOHN MUELLER: Let's move on
with some other questions here.I think we should do maybe
like one specific to Panda.
That would be great.
JOHN MUELLER: And we can
focus on all these questions,but maybe I should have a chance
to actually prepare for that.
MALE SPEAKER: That would
be very therapeutic.
BARUCH LABUNSKI: And
address the scandal.
MALE SPEAKER: Moving on
to a different topic.For videos, you're currently
only selling snippetson the search
results for YouTube.Any updates in regards to
potentially changing thatand would you mind sharing
the rationale behind that?It seems to me that
you want to showvideo snippets for any site
that ranks high for that term.
JOHN MUELLER: We do.We do show video snippets
for essentially any sitethat we recognize as
having video content.So if use something
like video site mapsand we can recognize that
this video is on those pages,you have the play pages
designed properly, marked up,then we will try to show that.So that's something that's
unrelated to just YouTube,but not YouTube.
MALE SPEAKER: I thought
that you had stoppedshowing on the search results
the video snippet for nonYouTube results.Am I mistaken?
BARUCH LABUNSKI: No, no.It's not there anymore.From what I see, I just see it's
strictly YouTube results only.
JOHN MUELLER: So when I search
for something like Vimeo,skateboard, I see Vimeo sites.At least for me,
it's still working.Is this like
something you've seenas search results in general?Because maybe
something got stuck.Because as far as I know,
this should be workingwith all kinds of video sites.
BARUCH LABUNSKI: No, John, I'm
using something like Wistia,and in Wistia, you have an
option for the snippet to show.It was also a blog on that.And it's not showing
any longer in sites.So like abc.com, or
whatever, it doesn't show,but regular YouTube, or
Vimeo, yes, you'll see it.You'll see the snippet
if it's just-- but noton just regular sites.
JOHN MUELLER: I
mean, what we tryto do is recognize
the video is reallyan important
element on this pageand treat them appropriately.Because if you're
in video search,and you search for a type of
video, and you land on a pagewhere the video is actually
like in the sidebar,and it's like a thumbnail
size, then that'skind of a bad user experience.Whereas, if you go to
a normal landing pagewhere the video is
kind of in front,then that's kind of a
thing we'd like to show.And that's similar for
image search, for example.So if you're searching
for an image on somethingand we know this is
on the page somewhere,but it's actually a real
sub, sub, sub element,then maybe that's something
we wouldn't show directly.
MALE SPEAKER: John,
I just pasted the URLwhere the only video snippets
are on YouTube, at leaston my end.And there are other the
videos on the search results,but they don't get
the video snippets.
JOHN MUELLER: I
imagine that justdepends on what we have there.So when I search that,
in the bottom result,I have from Daily Motion,
which is a video snippet.
BARUCH LABUNSKI: If Michael
Jackson has a YouTubevideo on his home page and there
was a YouTube on top of him,just the YouTube
snippet would show.The Michael Jackson
website would not show.
JOHN MUELLER: I don't know.I haven't seen Michael
BARUCH LABUNSKI: It just
disappeared last year sometime.I can't remember the date.
JOHN MUELLER: This is
something that we've alwaysbeen trying to
optimize in the sensethat we're trying to make
sure that we don't overloadthe user with additional
information that's essentiallythe same.But try to recognize
which parts are relevantand which parts are
irrelevant on the page.So that's something where maybe
this is kind of play into that.I'd have to take a look
at specific queriesto really see what exactly
you're seeing there.And maybe there is
some bug on our sidethat we're skipping over
video mark up on pagesthat we actually should
be recognizing properly.
MALE SPEAKER: Thank you, John.
JOHN MUELLER: A question about
the change of address tool.Why is there no option to
move sub domain to new domain?That's a good question.We've been talking about that
to the was a Webmaster Toolsteam as well and
it's possible that wecan get an update there.So hopefully, that'll be
possible at some point.In Webmaster Tools,
could you s listing,giving warnings about 404 errors
that come from obvious spamand scraper sources?That's good feedback.I don't think that we can
just block that out completelyat the moment, but
that's somethingwe can definitely take a look
at and see what we can do there.I don't know if you submitted
that to the wish listthat we sent out a while back.I will definitely copy
that down to the siteso that we can file
that for later, too.We just have a few minutes
left, but since you guys havebeen asking so many
live questions,let me grab a bunch
from the Q and A.Can Google really reproduce
trust decrease is therewith the escape fragment?You can test this in Webmaster
Tools with the Fetch & Rendertool to kind of see exactly what
Googlebot will be able to see.In most of the cases
that I've seen,we can get it pretty
much range, or wecan point at things like
issue that we've run across,where we could actually
render the page properly,but because you're
crawled by Google bot,we can't actually do it.So this is something that's also
very relevant for mobile pageswhere actually we'd like to be
able to recognize that they'remobile friendly, but if
you're blocking us from beingable to see them as such,
then we can't reallyrecognize them as such.And there's no trust decrease
or anything if you'reusing escape fragment, or not.Essentially, we're trying to
just see what these pages looklike to the normal user.With the announcement
of facts being includedas a ranking factor,
how will Googlehandle incorrect information
online because obviously,there's nothing
incorrect online.This was just a research paper
that some of our researchersdid and not something that
we're using in our rankings.
BARUCH LABUNSKI: [INAUDIBLE].
JOHN MUELLER: We
have researchersthat do fantastic research,
that publish tons of papersall the time, and just because
they're researching something,and trying to see which
options are happening there,or because maybe they even
patented something, or createnew algorithms, it doesn't
mean that it's somethingthat we use in search.So at the moment, this
is a research paperand I think it's interesting
seeing the feedbackaround that paper
and the feedbackfrom the online community, from
the people who are creating webpages, from the SCOs who
are working on promotingthis pages, but also from
normal web users who are lookingat this and saying,
well, I don'tknow how good Google do this,
or maybe this would be good,or maybe this would be bad.But at the moment, this is
definitely just a researchpaper and not something
that we're actuallyincluding in our searches.
BARUCH LABUNSKI: It's
a feedback paper.
JOHN MUELLER: A feedback paper.
BARUCH LABUNSKI: It's
just basically just kindof feedback.And is it ever going to happen,
but from what you're saying--
JOHN MUELLER: I don't know.If we can recognize
what is rightand what is wrong
on the internet,that has to be some
pretty advancedartificial intelligence.I don't know how
that could work.But I would totally
install that on my phone.If you have a red
light, green light,this site is telling the true,
or is trying to trick you.That would be pretty awesome.Who goes first?
JOSH BACHYNSKI: I said, I guess
it depends who programs it.
JOHN MUELLER: Well, if it
knows exactly the facts,the facts don't depend
on who programmed it.I guess opinions
are a bit different,but this makes it interesting.You can ask Google,
who killed JFK?You'll get some
answers and you'llget a variety of
answers, but it's notlike there is this
one proven thing thatis absolutely correct.Maybe there is.I haven't been paying
attention to that,but these are types of questions
where there's naturallysome disagreement and
it's important for usto bring the various viewpoints
into the search resultsand not just say, well, some of
these people are saying this,but these other people think
that's maybe it's not the case,we shouldn't show them.
BARUCH LABUNSKI: Did Uri
Geller really bend the spoon,yes or no?
JOHN MUELLER: Depends on
how you mean how he did it.
BARUCH LABUNSKI: All right.
JOHN MUELLER: I have
to run a bit early.So if you have one really
short question without an echo,then I'll grab that, but
otherwise I have to head out.
MIHAI APERGHIS: Quick one, John.Regarding Google Hummingbird,
to change gears a bit,has there being any
significant improvementsover the past few years?And whether Hummingbird
equally appliesto international
languages as well,or since it's based on
topicality and semantics,for some languages it might
not provide the same affectas for the English language.
JOHN MUELLER: I don't know.So the original version is
definitely international,but I don't know how changes
over time have affected that.And I know we do work on
understanding languagesbetter, so that's possible that
that kind of flows into that,but I don't know specifically
around the Hummingbird changeshow our changes of
understanding of languagehave kind of flown
back into that as well.
MIHAI APERGHIS: Right,
but we do expectthat that part of
international languages,it would have a lesser effect
than for the English languagewhere you have a better
understanding of the semantics,relationship between
words and everything.
JOHN MUELLER: I don't know.Possibly.I know sometimes we
were able to handleindividual languages a little
bit better than others.And sometimes that's
frustrating if you'rein one of those languages that
we don't pick up on so well,but I don't know how that
kind of worked in there.
JOSH BACHYNSKI: Maybe we
can have a Panda Hangoutand then have a
JOHN MUELLER: Yeah.Yeah, I don't know.
JOSH BACHYNSKI: Not to make
more work for you, John.
JOHN MUELLER: I
have to head out.Thank you all for your
questions and maybe see you guysagain at one of the